Former Royal Mail chief exec says he ‘was not aware’ group’s lawyers were prosecuting post office operators – UK politics live | Politics

Energy and net zero minister Graham Stuart to quit cabinet

The Post Office Horizon IT inquiry has concluded for the day. It resumes on Tuesday. On the schedule are former managing director of the Post Office David Miller and David Mills, former chief exec of Post Office.

But chair Wyn Williams has observed that it has “been a stretch” having two witnesses a day over the last couple of days, and Jason Beer KC says they will review the schedule. That could mean an earlier start – as happened today – or it could mean a rejig of who appears when. Williams has previously indicated that he was not inclined to alter the timetable and that he did not think the inquiry should last a day longer than was necessary because of the anguish caused to those who were affected.

Adam Crozier has just added “I am not an accounting expert” to his earlier “I am not a lawyer” while giving his evidence. He is being asked whether the Post Office was generating and recording a profit when it was getting these payments from subpostmasters generated from what we now know may have been phantom or duplicate Horizon transactions.

• This block has been edited at 16.00. It originally said “Adam Crozier has just added ‘I am not an accounting expert’ to his earlier ‘I am not an expert’ while giving his evidence.” He had in fact earlier said “I am not a lawyer”, not “I am not an expert”. With apologies.

The questions are trying to get at whether Adam Crozier can see that because the whole Post Office solvency was up in the air, there was an incentive not to say that a business critical system like Horizon was failing. He is saying he always wanted a culture of transparency.

Sam Stein KC has now taken over questioning on behalf of subpostmasters. He is saying to Crozier that hundreds of subpostmasters called the helpline and raised problems with the systems. “They were the subpostmasters under your care,” Stein says. They were told to pay up contractually from their own pockets, he is told.

Crozier said he always assumed the prosecutions were being carried out by a mix of the Post Office’s own legal team, some Royal Mail lawyers, and some external lawyers. Earlier he claimed he was not aware that the Post Office did not have its own legal team.

Adam Crozier is now being questioned by other lawyers, the first set of questions is trying to drill down into whether from the documents referring to Royal Mail prosecutions he could have known they were prosecuting Post Office staff.

Adam Crozier has been asked to concur that the Horizon IT system was a business critical system for the Post Office, and hence for the broader Royal Mail group that he headed.

He is asked by Jason Beer KC “What steps did the main board take in your seven years to ensure that it was running reliably? Were you aware of any internal audit conducting any review or investigation into the use, reliability and accuracy of the data that Horizon produced.”

“I genuinely can’t remember,” Crozier says.

There will now be a ten minute break. I will take one too.

My colleague Daniel Boffey has written this piece summing up the testimony this morning at the Post Office Horizon IT inquiry from Alan Cook.

Adam Crozier has just told the Post Office Horizon IT inquiry that he would find it “surprising” that Post Office managing director Alan Cook did not know the company had a prosecution function until late in his tenure.

Crozier says Cook always gave the impression he was on top of his brief. He says Cook never gave the impression of being anything other than in control of that brief.

Former chief executive of the Royal Mail Group Adam Crozier has said he did not have a “developed understanding” of the way in which Royal Mail carried out prosecutions.

Asked by Jason Beer KC “Is the truth of the matter that in your position you did not have a developed understanding of the extent to which Royal Mail prosecuted or the way in which things were or were not carried into effect?”

Crozier responded “I am not a lawyer. I would not claim it is my area of expertise.”

During Crozier’s time at the helm of the Royal Mail, its legal team, acting as a central team on behalf of the separate Post Office corporate entity, prosecuted hundreds of subpostmasters using Horizon IT data.

Former Royal Mail chief exec Crozier says ‘I was not aware’ Royal Mail lawyers were prosecuting Post Office subpostmasters

Adam Crozier has just said he was not aware that the Post Office did not have its own lawyers and it that it using the central legal function of the Royal Mail group. Crozier headed Royal Mail when it owned the Post Office between 2003 and 2010.

It should be noted that earlier Alan Cook was essentially saying on the Post Office side of things, because they were using the Royal Mail legal function, they didn’t have full oversight of it.

Keir Starmer has been talking to broadcasters about the UK’s nuclear deterrent, saying it is “the single most important part of our armoury to protect our country”.

During a visit to Barrow-in-Furness, PA Media reports he told broadcasters:

The commitment I’ve made here today is really important, I think I’m the first Labour leader to come here to the shipyard here, to see the building of the submarines for 30 years and to make a very important generational commitment which is to the Dreadnought submarines, to the continuous at-sea deterrent and to the upgrades that are needed over time and of course there’s AUKUS in there as well so this is a generational commitment.

The only way to have a safer world is to have an effective deterrent. The nuclear deterrent has been effective now for decades. It’s the single most important part of our armoury to protect our country, and that’s why I’m so committed to it.

And it’s important that we see this as a long term project because not only do we need the deterrence today, but we need … continued deterrence as we go forward.

Adam Crozier has just confirmed that in his seven year period at Royal Mail (2003-2010) he is not aware of any external audit of either the Post Office’s IT and Horizon systems or an external audit of the prosecution processes being undertaken by the Post Office. He is being reminded that company directors have a legal obligation for accounts to be accurate.

Incidentally the Post Office Horizon IT inquiry usually runs from 10am to 3pm on a Friday when sitting, but because there was a lot to go through today, chair Wyn Williams asked for an earlier start at 9.30am today. The plan is apparently for this session to run until 3.45pm, but they may have to include an extra break for the benefit of the transcribers at the hearing.

The Post Office Horizon IT inquiry is restarting, with Adam Crozier being questioned by Jason Beer KC. You can watch it here. I will bring you the key lines that emerge …